How Delivering Pizzas Helped Me Build a 27-Unit Rental Portfolio

David:
This is the BiggerPockets podcast show, 779.

Pamela:
I went from delivering pizzas to a nine figure real estate career, which was absolutely insane. And getting in the development game, the construction game, and learning about how to add value to properties and all these different things, and then building my own portfolio in this realm has really enabled me to be financially free at such a young age and also create generational wealth for my family to come. And generations beyond that. If they’re smart with it, of course.

David:
What’s going on everyone? It’s David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. The biggest, the best, the baddest real estate podcast in the world. Joined today by a fellow bad man, Robert Abasolo. Rob, how you feeling today?

Rob:
I’m feeling good. I’m feeling energized. I walked 10,000 steps today. I worked out, I launched a company. It’s like the running joke on Instagram where they’re like, “Start an LLC by 6:00 AM.” I actually did. Not by 6:00, but later on. So it feels good. I’m feeling I got a new vibe about me. How about that?

David:
Apparently walking 10,000 steps can completely change your life. So there you have it. This is what Rob considers exercise.

Rob:
Well, no, I also worked out. Cool it, pal.

David:
Okay, I thought you were saying the workout was the 10,000 steps and I was a little disappointed. That’s in addition to the workout? Now, I’m getting excited. Okay.

Rob:
And very important, through new said company, I was able to save us four to $600,000 in taxes on our Scottsdale property through cost segregation and then bonus depreciation and all that good stuff. So yeah, it always feels nice to lower your tax bill.

David:
Oh, yeah. And I love that you took credit for it, like you invented cost segregation or had the crazy idea to utilize it for the situation when that’s one of the reasons we bought the house.

Rob:
True. However, my company is a cost segregation company and thus-

David:
Oh, I did not know about this. You have a cost segregation company now?

Rob:
I do.

David:
All right, well slow down over there, Turbo. You’re making all the rest of us feel inferior.

Rob:
Well, you have 18 companies. You start 15 LLCs by 5:00 AM.

David:
That’s me. I’m that guy. Jocko’s up doing a workout and I’m up starting an LLC. That’s exactly right. In today’s show, we interview Pamela Bardhi, who has a fascinating story. Who went from delivering $9 pizzas to owning a nine figure real estate portfolio. And you can too. We interviewed Pamela and she shares a lot of practical advice as well as sort of the emotional parts of her story where her brain clicked, things changed, and she got off of the wrong path and onto the right path where she’s now living her best life and we are excited to bring this to you. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today’s show?

Rob:
I think, honestly, it’s a really great story because we get right into why she wants to build generational wealth. A lot of people just sort of toss that out there, but she gave us the motivation on how to do that. She talked about how she found a mentor that helped guide her through a lot of her first deals and how that led into a lot of the successes. She’s done a hundred deals and she’s 31. She was on the Forbes, I guess, 30 Under 30 list by age 27. I mean, it’s kind of one of those talks where she keeps naming the accolades and I’m like, “Okay, I need to turn things around. I need to start several LLCs by 6:00 AM.” It’s a very motivating guest to have on the pod.

David:
And very fun too. You guys are going to love this one. You’re going to want to go follow her when you’re done. Before we bring in Pamela, today’s quick tip is you’ve got the skills, now go put them to work in real estate. Many people listening to this, yes, you as you’re listening right now, have specific skills that you develop through life experiences or workplace experiences or a combination of the two. Those will help you in your real estate career. Just look for the right opportunity to use them. And a bonus quick tip to listen for, your pizza delivery guy may help you build a deal funnel for deals. Listen to today’s show to find out how. All right, listen to today’s show. And on the next episode, Rob is going to explain how he has applied math to real estate to cause it to make money and not lose money. We got you here at BiggerPockets. All right, let’s bring in Pamela. Pamela, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you today?

Pamela:
I am doing lovely my friend. How are you?

David:
I am wonderful and I’m excited to dig into your story here. There’s so many cool parts of it. So people have a little understanding of your background, you have done over 100 deals between flips and renovations. Currently, you own 27 units, have been investing for 10 years in Boston. And as a fun fact, you side hustled as a DJ in college. Anything that I missed?

Pamela:
Sounds about right. And I’m a dog mom. I have two dogs. I always count them in there.

Rob:
Now, are you still a dog mom after you have a kid? I’m just kidding. This is a call back to a previous podcast.

Pamela:
Always.

Rob:
But we’ll come out soon before this. Sorry, David, carry on.

David:
So Pamela, what are your dog’s names? First off, let’s give them a shout-out.

Pamela:
Absolutely. Rhea, who’s five years old and Blue, who’s a year and a half. They are hilarious.

David:
Okay, this sounds like the makings of a country song already. We’re up to a great start here. Do you call him Old Blue by chance? I feel like you got to call the dog Old before Blue.

Pamela:
I have not yet, but I’ve definitely got to mention that to him. He is a spunky dude.

David:
All right. So tell me, how has real estate investing transformed your life up to this point?

Pamela:
Where do I even begin? I mean, it’s transcended generations from me at this point, which is I think the most beautiful part of it all. By the time I was 27, I went from delivering pizzas to a nine figure real estate career, which was absolutely insane. And getting in the development game, the construction game, learning about how to add value to properties and all these different things, and then building my own portfolio in this realm has really enabled me to be financially free at such a young age and also create generational wealth for my family to come and generations beyond that. If they’re smart with it, of course, and maintain what I’ve established. But yes, that’s I think, the most powerful thing about real estate. It’s a long game. You guys say that all the time. It’s a long game.
It’s not a let’s make six figures in six months kind of deal. It’s let’s build for the future. Let’s play this out throughout a couple of years and build and build and build and go from that. And all of a sudden you go… This compound interest and rock and roll from there. So it’s transcended so much. Aside from that too, it’s also community. How cool is it that real estate is the space… As developers and as people in real estate, we help to define communities. We help get people into those homes. We create those homes. There’s a whole ideology that I have about all of that, but it’s just the coolest thing in the world for me.

Rob:
That’s really cool. Well, I don’t want to glaze over what you said, which is you went from delivering $9 pizzas to building a nine figure real estate business. That that’s really cool. One thing that you mentioned was generational wealth, and I was just sort of curious on is there a particular reason why you want to build generational wealth? Because that is something we talk about a lot in real estate, but I don’t think we ever get into why that’s important to the actual individual. Is there anything in particular that resonates for you, why that’s such an important goal?

Pamela:
Totally. So I mean, I came to the US when I was about five years old and my parents came here with nothing to build the American dream. And really everything from such a young age for me in my ear was “Build for your family. Build for the future,” do all of that stuff. And then my parents getting into business and all of that, and then me eventually getting into real estate, I saw the impact of all of that kind of in the long run. And I understood how powerful real estate truly is. I mean, we all think about like, “Oh, let’s make money, let’s do this. Let’s get into real estate, let’s do this long term.”
And then we really look at it. And most people don’t ask themselves, “Why am I doing this? Why hustle so hard? Why do this? Why go crazy over all of this?” And the answer is legacy. Why are we working our tails off at this point? It’s so that our generations can then have something we didn’t have and continue to elevate the generational line continuously down the line because real estate builds that wealth. I mean, the last stat I read was 76% of the US, their main source of wealth comes from their primary residence, which is insane. They take equity lines of credit to pay for college. I mean, there’s all kinds of stuff. This is a powerful wealth vehicle for Americans.

Rob:
So as we mentioned, you’re in Boston now? Is that where you grew up?

Pamela:
Yeah, so when I was five years old, we moved to Boston Mass, and that’s where we’ve been kind of this whole time since we came from Italy, because I was born in Tirana, Albania, which is right above Greece, moved to Italy when I was about six months old. And then we won the visa lottery when I was about five to come to the US. So we came straight to Boston.

David:
Okay. So you were five years old when you came here. So most of your life you’ve lived here. How did you avoid picking up the Boston accent? I don’t hear any of it right now.

Pamela:
I don’t know. See, the thing is, Dave, a lot of people tell me that I do have it. They’re like, “Oh, you must be from Boston.” And I’m like, “I don’t have an accent.”

David:
Tell me that you parked the car near the water.

Rob:
No, near the Harvard yard.

Pamela:
I parked the car near Harvard Yard. See, I say my Rs and everything. I don’t know, why do the people say I got the Boston accent? It’s hilarious.

David:
All right, so you avoided a Boston accent, but you did not avoid being exposed to entrepreneurialism. I understand that you went to college. What was your major in school?

Pamela:
So when I went to undergrad, I went to Stonehill College and I literally thought… So being an entrepreneur my whole life. So my parents came here when I was about five years old. My dad ended up buying a restaurant when I was about 10. He spent many, many years working three jobs. I barely saw my dad when we were growing up because my mom was a stay-at-home mom. My brother was a newborn and I was young. So my dad worked all types of jobs and eventually ended up buying a restaurant because his best friend gave him a down payment to do so. And he said, “Hey man, the way that you build wealth in America’s one of two ways. A, you own real estate. B, you own your own business.” He’s like, I know you don’t have the credit to buy real estate right now, but keep that in mind for the future. But here’s a down payment, go out and buy a restaurant.
So my father bought a restaurant when I was about 10 years old and it was the coolest thing ever because I just wanted to hang out with my dad. And so I dragged myself to work with him, even though he was like, “Pam, stay home, play with toys.” And I was like, “Nope, I’m getting into the game, dad.” And so my whole life I had spent in the restaurant industry and then doing all kinds of other things. I’m probably one of the most unemployable people on planet earth because I’ve never worked anything corporate, never did any type of job. So when I went to college though, ironically enough, my parents said, “Hey, Pam, we really want you to get into something that’s more secure. We don’t want you working 12 to 14 hours like we do in our business so that you can get married, start a family, do that stuff,” which is interesting coming from entrepreneurs.
But the restaurant business is really tough. And growing up in the immigrant mentality of how much you physically work determines your success levels, that’s a whole other thing. So when I went to college, I actually went in for marketing. I got a full scholarship to Stonehill and I was wicked pumped… See, the Boston came out. And then I’m taking this supplied calculus class. And first off, I don’t even understand algebra one, let alone algebra two and then get into calculus. And it was this adjunct professor that just was on my case. He just kept throwing tests at us and I was like, “Dude, I don’t even understand algebra. You’re throwing calculus at me. This doesn’t make logical sense.” See geometry, I would slay geometry all day, all night. Now, algebra and calculus is a whole nother thing.
So I get to the middle of the semester and I have a 40 in this class and I’m like, “I’m going to lose my scholarship. I need to drop this class.” I’m thinking that I went in for marketing was then going to graduate Stonehill and work corporate and then get into a 9:00 to 5:00. And then when I was 40 start a business or something. That was not the case. I dropped this class and I thought my entire world ended basically because I could no longer take that major because I needed that class.

David:
Isn’t it funny how certain classes click and they make all the sense in the world and other ones for the life of you, no matter how hard you work, something just doesn’t fit. Very smart people can struggle with certain topics and I’ve always been fascinated by… You said you could slay geometry, but calculus was really… It was similar for me. Geometry, I didn’t understand how anyone could struggle with that. It was so sensible. Just if this is this, then that has to be that. And basic algebra, same type of thing. But when I got into pre-calculus and it was complex formulas that there was no logical connection between those numbers on a piece of paper and a graph that they turned into, my mind could not make a connection to understand that type of thing. Economics made all the sense in the world, supply and demand, and if this happens, that’s likely to happen.
I was like, “How could anyone not understand that?” I think a lot of people that go through an experience like yours, they feel there’s something wrong with them. It crushes their confidence. They think “I’m just not meant for this. Other people are good at this, not me.” And then the saddest thing ever happens, they quit. They say, “All right, well, I’m just going to resign myself to being a secretary or playing small in some way because I tried and I wasn’t smart enough. I didn’t make it.” Did you have a moment like that where you questioned your ability to start a business, to be an entrepreneur, to be successful? Or did you just have an unflappable confidence that carried you through that?

Pamela:
Well, you made a lot of interesting points there. Now, some classes struck more than others and it was so interesting to me how I loved geometry. I was a beast at chemistry. I had 101 average in chemistry. I should have been in Breaking Bad. I should have been casted for that at this point, to be honest. But I really got to a point where I got super down on myself. I’m like, “Dang, why don’t I get this? No matter how much I try, it seems like I’m beating myself against the wall and it’s just not working.” I’ve always been surrounded by incredible mentors and incredible souls in my life that were like, “Pam, just because that doesn’t work for you means that you’re just meant for something else, and that is totally cool and totally okay and don’t freak out.” So I decided to then be dramatic and change my entire major to communications which I loved because I love people. I absolutely love people.
And then shortly thereafter, I was missing the whole business piece because I love that. It’s something that was kind of inherent to me. Imagine you’re in the restaurant business since you were 10 years old. You develop all these business skills. I mean, my parents were making me pay bills by the time I was 12. Like, “Pam, you call them and make the payment over the phone.” And I’m like, “I don’t know what to say.” They’re like, “Well, we can’t speak English, so you’re going to have to do it.” And so these skill sets that as a kid I was like, “Oh my God, this is so annoying. No other kid has to do this.” But it built me into business.
So reflecting back on that, when I was in college, it was kind of like, “Well, I’m missing the whole business element of this. I love entrepreneurship.” So that’s when I decided to go into Stonehill and say, “Hey, I want to double major and I want to create my own major in entrepreneurship.” And I remember as Professor [inaudible 00:16:16] and he’s like, “Pam, you’d be the first in school history to do that. I mean, we’ve had minors but never are a major.” So that’s when I combined the two. But even still at that point, still at that point, I didn’t think that I was going to be an entrepreneur right when I graduated. I had another moment, another one.

Rob:
Okay. All right. So well, first of all, I just had a flashback to my childhood because my parents are also immigrants and I used to always have to call companies and pretend to be my dad or my mom whenever I had a higher voice. I’ve never met anyone else that had to do that. So small connection there. But I know you were helping your parents out occasionally with the restaurant. You picked up another sort of side hustle or another part-time job in college too, right?

Pamela:
I created it, for sure. It was hilarious. And I was a DJ, so inadvertently when my father was doing pizza deliveries as we were growing up, when he bought the restaurant… At that time, there was cassettes and then there was CDs and then came MP3s and Aux cords. Now, my dad’s driving around all day. He didn’t have anything to listen to, so I’d always be jamming with him in the car. That was one of our favorite bonding moments was literally just jamming in his minivan, driving around town in Boston, dropping pizzas off and food off.
Now, all those mixtapes said DJ Pammy B on them. I literally would burn CDs for my dad and create mixtapes and a whole list and everything since it was available to burn. And it was hilarious because I go into college and I’ve always loved music. I’ve always been at parties, under 21s. Anything that I can get into, I was there, I was vibing. That was my jam. So come college days, I’m a freshman going out on campus at Stonehill and I’m going to all these parties. I’m like, “This music is horrendous. You can’t even dance to this. Who are these people? Who’s DJing these things?”
And so, I went back to my room with my three roommates and we just threw a party and it got super wild. And from there my name spread around campus and all of a sudden I became DJ Pammy B and was getting paid stupid money per night to DJ and get free drinks and get free food and everything. And back in 2009, that was a lot of money. 300 bucks a night plus food, plus drinks was unreal. I was like, “Guys, I’ve made it.” So it’s something I did all four years and it was a blast. It was cool because you control the energy of the room. You’re bringing different cultures together. It’s a vibe. And the stuff you see from the DJ booth is hysterical. You get the best view of all of it.

David:
So this experience broke you out of the paint color by number. Go here, go there, go there. Here’s the box you fit in. Then you moved to this one and this one, the corporate world that you were preparing yourself to get into to seeing creativity, to seeing opportunity, to making your own way. I guess as a DJ, you can create the environment you want as opposed to in the corporate world, you bounce around looking for the environment you want. What was the turning point where you decided you were going to do your own thing, that you weren’t going to wait until you were 40 to start that business?

Pamela:
Yeah. So it happened on accident. Most of us, we get into these situations and we’re like, “Oh, man, I was not planning this.” It was my junior year I was entering into, I was still fixated that I was going to be in marketing when I graduated undergrad. And I’m still telling myself I want to do events in marketing, I want people, I want to put on big events because the DJ in me came out. Love those vibes. So I was thinking about the biggest sports venue in Boston. What better place to be that where all the action is for sports, entertainment, all that stuff. That’s where I wanted to be. So I was like, “You know what? Spring semester, I’m going to do an internship there and I’m going to rock it.”
And so I got the internship, which was extremely difficult to get into. The end of the internship, I was doing social media and marketing for them at that point. And at that time, social media was still a fairly new thing. This was 14, 15 years ago at this point. And I go in for my final review for my internship and my supervisor’s like, “Oh yeah, Pam, thank you so much for everything throughout the semester.” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, no, no, thank you guys, learned so much. This is so cool. What a different experience for me. What’s my grade?” And of course, I’m the kid that showed up every single day, was going above and beyond, was crushing it, participating in everything, teacher’s pet level type stuff. But I’m just built to do things at a very high level and to always be doing multiple things at once. I can’t sit still.
And so she’s like, “Oh, Pam, it’s a B minus.” And I was like, “Can I just ask why?” And the interior of me was filled with rage because I’m like, “Dude, I showed up. I did all the things. Why did I get a B minus here? I get punished for doing the right thing? I don’t get it.” And she literally said to me the words that changed my life, “You’re just too ambitious.” And I remember hearing that and just going ballistic in my mind, but still got to keep your cool in front of people. You’re like, “You’re just too ambitious?”
I lost my mind. I’m like, that’s the one thing my parents always said to do was just to be ambitious and go out there and get it in whatever it is that you want and go get it. And that’s what I did my whole life. Whatever I wanted, I got it, period, because I worked my tail off for it. Now, if it was meant for me or not, it dictates itself in the future. But I remember walking out of that room and I said, “Thank you so much.” And I was walking out of the office threshold door, and I remember just little tap on my shoulder that was like, “Hey, Pam, you’re not meant to work for anybody When you graduate, you’re meant to do your own thing. This is why this didn’t work out.” And I felt this immediate relief and I was like, “Oh, I get it.”
“If you’re going to be an entrepreneur, you got to remember to have a big heart no matter what you do, okay? Just promise me that.” And I was like, “Okay, dad.” And that was that conversation. And later that summer, my dad had a vacancy coming up in his building next to his restaurant, which is where I had been my whole life. That’s where I worked and helped my parents and all of that. And I had the opportunity to present a business plan to my dad. And so that’s what I did and got prepared for senior year.

Rob:
Okay, so you tried too hard and you crushed it too hard at your internship. And they’re like, “Hey, we don’t overachievers over here. We only do the status quo.” And so that sort of lit this fire in you to be like, “All right, I’m going to be too ambitious, but for myself.” I feel like I said that word myself. And then you called your parents and you’re like, “Hey, guys, I’m never going to work for somebody.” And somehow miraculously… I mean, I imagine they understood the grit that you had, but they were on board. And did real estate come right into the picture as soon as the vacancy opened at your dad’s place? Or was it some sometime after that?

Pamela:
It was sometime after that. So ironically, I had two restaurants by the time I was 21 because I was super young in college, so I graduated a year early from everyone. So I opened my first restaurant, which was Rio, and then I was offered a partnership opportunity on another restaurant in downtown Boston. So I had two restaurants that I was running by my senior year and then-

Rob:
Wow. At 21?

Pamela:
And one of them, the one in downtown Boston was the biggest food operations in the entire country. So if you know where the Hatch Shell is in Boston, where they do July 4th, the Pops and all that?

Rob:
Were you asking that to us?

Pamela:
Yeah, if you guys heard of the Hatch Shell where they do the Boston Pops and they do the big July 4th celebration and all that? So my partner, we ran that. So we ran every food vendor from the Mass app, so from the Museum of Science to the Mass Ave Bridge, which is miles. So we controlled that. And then we had a brick and mortar location as well. And I had another restaurant on top of that. So this was me at 21 hustling around, I mean working every single day because events, it’s primarily weekends and it’s like 12 to 14 hour days. And I’m sitting here like, “Man, this is craziness.” I’m like, “I started two of my own businesses. I thought this was going to be the dream. And here I am still hustling, still grinding, still working, what is going on?”
I still wasn’t fulfilled and it felt so messed up. This is another moment that I felt like down and out in failure on myself because I’m like, “This is people’s dreams to open their own business. And here I am not fulfilled.” I felt like an ungrateful little kid, but I wasn’t happy, which was ironic. And so I had a lot within myself. And then these real estate developers started to come through our stores and my restaurants. And then also my uncle was a general contractor. He was starting to get into flips because this was around 2013, 2014 when I started getting into the game. Around 2013 is when I was learning because I was like, “What is this real estate game all about?”
Because the first time someone mentioned it to me, I was like, “I’m not selling houses, thank you very much.” I was like, “That’s not what I’m interested in.” And then these real estate developers started coming to my restaurants and I’m like, “Who are these dudes, man? They come in whenever they want. They have the nicest cars, the nicest clothes. They’re talking about their vacations and how they’re going to leave on Thursday night to go to their vacation house.” And I’m like, “There is no way that they do anything legal. These are drug dealers, a hundred thousand percent. These are drug dealers. There’s no legality in what they do.” And then I started talking to them like, “What do you guys actually do?” And started getting into it. And they were telling me about making your money work for you and just concepts that you’ve never heard before. And here I went through undergrad, a very expensive undergrad. Luckily I had a full scholarship there, but did all the things that society told me to and even started my own businesses and just all these things.
And yet I still wasn’t exposed to these ideologies in these types of businesses where making money work for you, investing, what is that? As an immigrant, we knew that hustle determined your success levels. If you weren’t working then you weren’t successful, period. And that’s just the way it was. And so that’s when I decided to go into real estate investing because I was like, “What is this game that they’re talking about? I don’t know. I don’t get it. This is pretty cool.” It was like, “Let me look into this.” And that’s when I dove in. So again, a whole nother accident that kind of just happened on its own.

Rob:
Wow, that’s crazy. Well, an “Accident.” But I think really it’s your ability to adapt, I’m sure is sort of really what forms your entire career. It’s really cool to hear this unfold. So let’s get into your early deals. First, it sounds like from our previous talk you had a mentor. So what made you choose to get a mentor diving right into real estate?

Pamela:
Well, so my game plan in getting into real estate, and the reason why I got into it was not for me to get out of restaurants. My whole game plan was like, “Hey, I want to do a flip or two per year so that I can have some additional income aside from my restaurants.” And it’s something that I can do because I don’t have to be on site every day and all these things. My uncle was a GC and all of that. And so I remember thinking about getting into it and I literally went to every networking event that I possibly could, connected with everyone that I possibly could. And this was around the time that HGTV was really blowing up, Flip or Flop and all those shows were coming out and all of that.
And I remember just thinking to myself, I’m like, “Pam, you have so much to lose. You need to hire a coach.” And my mentors were telling me the same thing. They’re like, “Pam, this is a brand new game for you. You’ve got a lot to lose. You have two restaurants, you’ve got employees and things. You can’t just try to figure it out. This is big money where you could lose thousands. Yes, it’s high risk, high reward, but it’s high risk and you could lose your damn shirt like a lot of people have, so be careful.”
And this was still four years after 2008, 2009. So there was still a lot of overflow of deals from that time period. And so there was still a lot of people that were newly burned from all of that. So that was the biggest piece of advice that I got was “Pam, hire a coach and just somebody who’s been there, done that, who’s playing in your marketplace and just roll with that. You have too much to lose to try to figure it out yourself. You’re going to time hack and time save and all of that, but just don’t forget this part of the game, please.” And so that was the best move I ever did, literally.

Rob:
Yeah. Learn from someone else’s experience. And so obviously it sounds like you were able to avoid a ton of mistakes, but you said that you wanted to do a couple of flips every single year to start making some extra income every single year. You landed on flips. How did you land on what to look for in a flip, really not knowing much about the real estate landscape?

Pamela:
So everything ran by my coach. I was trained by him. Every single move that I made was always audited, I like to say. I’m like, “Okay, so show me the way. How do I get to these deals? How do I make this happen?” It was a step-by-step. I got the handholding the whole time. So he told me, “Pam, number one thing is you fall in love with numbers and not the actual house and you run numbers and analyze every single property.” He’s like, “But first you’ve got to figure out what are you going to buy? What’s your budget? What are you going to buy? And then from there you can work numbers.” But if you’re kind of in the unknown, you’re going to be all over the place, which is what happens with most investors as they’re starting. They want to do everything everywhere. They live on the East Coast, but they want to do a deal on the West Coast because they think magically somehow it’s going to happen.
So he told me, you get very focused on what it is that you want, figure out your asset class, your budget, and then move from there. And I said, “Well, I would like to start with a single family.” It seems manageable. I don’t want to go into a two or three unit property when it’s my first rehab. I want to be as low risk as I possibly can and single family was that. So that’s what we were looking for and we came across an awesome deal from a local wholesaler actually, and picked that deal up. That was the deal that made me go all in real estate, to be honest with you.

Rob:
It sounds so obvious when you say it because it’s sort of hiring a personal trainer at a gym. They just know how to guide you immediately. “Hey, this is what you do, this is what you don’t do. You do this and this and this. If you do all these things, you’ll have results.” And I kind of feel like sometimes coaches get way too much of a bad shake in this industry, but it sounds like it ended up working for you pretty fantastically. So I do want to hear about your first flip. Tell us the story. How did it all pan out?

Pamela:
Sure. Well, the first day that I pulled up to it, I couldn’t find it. I drove by it 17 times and I was like, “What is this thing?” And I remember going in and it was terrifying. It had fallen apart and the family… So the story was that the family had… So the kids were out of state, they’re older, they moved out of state and the parents had gone to a nursing home. And so the house had been sitting vacant for a while and in need of serious disrepair, which was super sad because I could see so many different beautiful characteristics in the house like cathedral ceilings and all this gorgeousness that it had and all the potential that it had.
And I remember the sellers really… The son was mainly handling it. And he said something to me and he’s like, “Pam, please just one thing. Please restore this house the way we remember it as kids because that was our home that we grew up in and we just want to see it come back to life because it’s so sad to see it in disrepair.” So I picked that thing up at 150. It was an awesome deal. I’m like, “I wish we could do 150s here around the Boston Mass market.” But this deal was particularly in Stoughton, and it’s funny because this was only 10 minutes away from where I used to live in college. So Stonehill College is in Easton, so just a stone’s throw away. So I was very familiar with the area and then it was a full [inaudible 00:33:24] rehab. We added another bathroom and all the things. It ended up being a three bed, two bath and absolutely came out absolutely gorgeous. And I’ll never forget, I sent those photos to the family and the video walkthroughs when we were done and they were absolutely mind blown.
They’re like, “How did you do that? It looks absolutely unreal. Pam, thank you so much for restoring that. And our family legacy can now continue.” They were happy that it’s at this stage now. And then I’ll never forget, I’m sitting there at the open house and I’m just soaking it all in. I see the family that actually ended up buying the property and they’re interacting with it, they’re engaging with it, they’re loving it and talking about all the details, all the things and all the heart and soul that I put into it, they’re talking about it and I’m like, “Wow, this is the coolest thing in the world.” It was a very surreal experience for me kind of sitting back and being like, “Holy crap, this is how you impact people.” You literally are creating the homes or the properties that people create memories in. That’s the craziest thing in the whole entire world, the coolest thing and the greatest privilege.

David:
So that was the affirmation. This is where I’m supposed to be. I’m doing the right thing.

Pamela:
Oh my God. Yeah.

David:
Now, I’m curious because you grew up in the restaurant industry trying to figure out how do we use space? How do we create an environment that people want to make memories? They’re kind of coming here, they’re going to eat. You want them to feel welcome, you want them to be in an environment that they’re comfortable, they’re going to laugh, tell jokes. You sort of applied that same logic to housing. Do you think that was just happenstance or do you think that some of your background in the entrepreneurial world made it so that designing homes clicked for you?

Pamela:
Totally. So it was something that I didn’t even realize that I had. I can literally walk into a space and see it all. For me, it was like nothing scares me, still doesn’t. And people are amazed by that. It’ll be just the crappiest, dingiest and they’re like, “Pam, I…” And I’m like, “Oh, if you take down this wall and this wall, we keep this open concept” and this and this… It’s like I can see the final product up here in ways that other people can’t. My visualization skills are on a whole nother level when it comes to that. And that’s what happened with that property.
And to add some figures and some backdrop on that one, I made 100K on that deal. I put in about… I think it was 125 and then we had some holding costs and stuff and ultimately sold it for over 400. So on my first deal making pretty much 100K profit, I’m thinking to myself as somebody who owns two restaurants, how many dinners or sandwiches do I have to sell to net 100K? It was a lot of sandwiches. So it all started clicking for me and designing out my restaurants, I didn’t realize that I had that skillset in designing places and things and how that really applied to what was going to happen down the line in real estate, through development and all of that. So it was all connected. I see it now, but at the time I was always so super confused.

David:
So Pam, you have now done over 100 deals, like we said when we started the podcast here. What are some lessons that you can share that you’ve learned along the way?

Pamela:
So the top three I would say is financial forecasting, operational efficiencies and partnerships. So those three things have been the most critical that I’ve learned. And starting with financial forecasting now, I tend to be a very optimistic human being. And the thing is I’m like, “Oh, I can get it done within six months. I can get it done with X amount budget.” Found out a couple of times that really wasn’t the case. I under budgeted where I was supposed to and realized that cash flow is really important. Cash is king to keep all the deals moving and flowing so you don’t run into any issues. However, how did I mitigate that? And what was the lesson learned there? Number one is make sure you’re opting in for a contingency on every single one of your deals. Create a cushion for yourself in every deal that you do.
I don’t care if it’s a flip, I don’t care if it’s a buy and hold, I don’t care if it’s anything like that. Make sure you’re allocating 20 to 25%. Like, “Hey, if this goes south, I’m going to make sure that I have this in my budget to allocate for that.” And guess what? If the project goes awesome and you’re just as optimistic as you thought you were going to be, then amazing. You get to keep that money at the end of the day, but at least allocate that when you’re analyzing the deal from day one.
Tying into the financial forecasting model, another item that I would like to add in there is making sure that you have several different exit strategies when it comes to a property. We’re in a market where things seem to be changing on a month by month basis. So if you’re purchasing something as a flip, make sure that you are also running it as a long-term hold just in case that property for some reason isn’t selling or it’s going to sell for less than what you thought it would so that you’re not losing money on the deal. So make sure that when you’re running your numbers from day one, you’re analyzing different ways that you can get out of that deal with your shirt on. So if it’s going to be a flip or buy and hold, make sure you at least got two ways out.
So operational efficiencies, what I found was whenever I would have a deal that was more than 30 minutes away from each other, I would have operational inefficiencies because for example, I’m in Boston and there’s North Shore and South Shore and typically there’s no contractor who works on the North Shore that’s going to go to South Shore. They don’t cross certain highways, they work in their zone and that’s it. And I found that I lost a lot of time that way, which means I lost a lot of money. So the key here is to make sure that you’re centralizing operations. So if you’ve got one project going on and you’re looking to scale some more, try to keep them within 15, 20 minutes of each other and keep the same contractors on the job, it’s going to keep things moving much faster. So that is definitely lesson number two.
So number three, partnerships and pretty much all the clan of people that you’re going to have around you, surrounding you during these projects. So just a whole lot of people, making sure that you vet them correctly, make sure that your goals are aligned. And for example, ask yourself question number one, would I have a drink with this person? Would I actually party with this person? If the answer is no, most likely you’re not with the right partner. You want to enjoy the company and build long-term relationships. You don’t want to just, for example, start with one lender and then move on to the next and move on to the next. You want to stay solid with one partner, one attorney, one lender, that kind of thing. So that way you’re cranking out efficiently and building for the long-term together and have aligned goals. That’s super important for long-term growth and scaling.
Some red flags to look out for when you are vetting your partners is anybody who’s really trying to throw themselves at you, I find is very uncomfortable and strange and never really works out well. If they’re trying to throw themselves at you and get very salesy, you can feel that right away. You’re like, “Okay, this is probably not the partner.” And then you’re going to ask yourself that question, would I actually want to hang out with this person? Probably not because they seem very, very clingy. All of these things are things to think about when you’re vetting your partners because you’re going to be dealing with them nonstop. And typically they say that 10% of the people in the market do 90% of the deals, and that’s the truth. The big dogs, the ones who are out there doing deals are the ones who really don’t say much, right? It’s referral basis, they do things on their own and that kind of thing. That’s who you want to be affiliated with, for sure.
What would I say to new real estate investors or those who are just simply interested in real estate in general? Well, first things first is you’ve got to ask yourself, do you want to be a passive or an active investor? That’s the first place to start because real estate is a very overwhelming type of industry. You can make money everywhere. The question is how do you want to make it and how does it suit your lifestyle and fit your needs? So are you going to go passive, which means you’re investing in a fund and then you get your dividends in return and you’re kind of hands off on the deal? Or is it that you want to be an active investor and purchase properties and be hands on and kind of do the thing, whether it’s buy and hold or do fix or flip deals. So that’s the question to start with baseline like, “Hey, passive or active?” Before you do absolutely anything else, that’s step number one.
Now for step number two for advice for new investors is how do you choose your market? Because, oh my God, this has been one that I’ve had to guide so many people on and I’m like, “Listen, it doesn’t have to be super complicated. Just start in your market.” When I started, literally some of the best market that I knew was West Roxbury here based in Boston, Massachusetts, because that’s where I delivered pizzas. And literally I was like, “Well, this is where I have the relationships the best. This is where I know every street. This is where I know all the things. So why would I not start here? When I become super big, then I can go crazy and go everywhere else.”
So I started by printing out just literally an eight and a half by 11 sheet and it’s black and white and all it said was, “Hey, I buy houses in this area, please give me a call if you’re interested,” and my cell phone number. Super plain, no crazy designer, no bandit signs, none of that stuff. Put it on the pizza boxes. And people would call and text me and be like, “Oh, Pam, this is what you’re doing now?” And I’m like, “Yeah,” and then I got a whole bunch of leads from that. But again, start with your relationships and start with your market. From there, you can always expand. You just need a starting point.
So the third piece of advice for new real estate investors, anyone interested in getting into the real estate game is surrounding yourself with like-minded people and creating partnerships off of that. Because in the beginning when I had absolutely no idea what I was doing in real estate, didn’t know anything about it, I started going to networking events. Essentially I wanted to surround myself with real estate developers because that’s what I knew I wanted to do. I had decided that I wanted to be an active investor, that I wanted to flip a couple of houses a year. I knew I wanted to do it in my market, which was in Boston. So I looked for events in Boston that I could go out and meet like-minded people and people who are doing deals in that market.
So that’s super important. I mean, if you’re connecting with people, say you’re on East Coast and you’re connecting with people on the West Coast, it’d be a little bit different because those are different markets. So surround yourself with like-minded people that are doing the things that you want to do in your market most specifically. And if not, somewhere close by. And from there, you can start to meet your lenders, your attorneys, there’s contractors, there’s other real estate investors, and you start to get all of these tips. And sometimes in the very beginning, you may not be equipped to handle a deal completely by yourself. So maybe there’s somebody that you can partner with at one of those events that you meet. I hear that all the time. So those are definitely the top three things I would suggest when getting started.
So within those partnerships and going to these networking events, you’re going to find that you’re going to meet individuals that inspire you and you think to yourself, “Oh my god, this person’s incredible. If they did it, I could do it too.” And that was certainly my case. One of the people that inspired me the most in this industry when I got into real estate development was Cindy Stumpo. She was a builder, still is a builder. She’s out there hustling, grinding every single day. She began in the eighties and she’s building in the most top tier markets in literally the State of Massachusetts, if not the entire country, which is Newton and Brookline. And I’m saying to myself, “This woman has built all these projects in the toughest cities to ever build in, 3 to 5 million houses minimum,” that’s like her minimum and beyond. And I just remember thinking, “Well, she did it, then I could too.”
Finding a model and somebody who inspires you is also a very, very key thing when you’re first getting started because you can relate to them. And it’s almost like if they trail blaze the way, it’s almost like you can walk in those footsteps as well, which is absolutely incredible. And the first thing I did, even though I still think to this day… I’m like, I can’t even believe I showed up to her office and asked her… I said to her is straight up. I said, “Cindy, I know you don’t know me, but I just think you’re absolutely amazing and just thank you for being who you are and just being fearless and doing what you do because you’re inspiring me now to go out there and do my thing, even though I have no idea where I’m going with it. Just know that you’ve inspired me to at least take these steps forward.”
So finding that model is really, really key. And I’ll never forget, she said to me, “Honey, anything you need, I’m here.” Even simple words of encouragement, that really propelled me forward and look at where it got me to this day. So I always give credit to my role model there all the time. It’s funny, I texted her this morning actually, and we’re still in touch.

David:
What are some of the skills that you gained working in your family’s restaurants and then running yours that you feel translated into real estate? And what I’m hoping for here is people that are in a position right now, they work for a CPA, they’re a paralegal, they’re a nurse. They have something where they built skills, and we want them to understand how that could translate into real estate success and make the transition easier for them.

Pamela:
So first and foremost, I think that everyone who wants to start a business or get into real estate should have the prerequisite of working as a bartender and/or waitress or waiter before they do that because that is the biggest pressure test of all time. So being in restaurants since I was 10 years old, I was taught to improvise. I was taught customer service skills, how to connect with people, how to manage a million different things at once. Operations, all these things that I didn’t even know became second nature to me. And so translating into real estate, managing people, motivating people, helping them when there was deals, because in real estate we put out fires all the time, that translated over beautifully, all of it because all the skills that I built in the restaurant world completely translated over, even though it seems like completely different industries, it touched on the same things.
Your problem solving, at the end of the day, you’re literally problem solving and relationships, which I love. And so for anyone who’s out there that’s looking to transition into real estate, I mean, I say this all the time to everyone that I know. I’m like, “Guys, real estate fits into your life differently, whether you’re a nurse, doctor, whatever.” If you want completely passive income, invest in a fund and just close your eyes. And that’s how you’re going to get invested in real estate. If you want to be hands-on, then it’s going to be a little bit more different than that. But just know that there’s different ways for you to get involved in real estate, that there could be ways that doesn’t work for most people but it works for you. Maybe you side hustle on the side and you want to be a real estate agent because you want to get closer to the deals. Maybe you partner with a local developer and invest in their deals.
I mean, there’s a million different ways you get involved with real estate. And just because you’re a nurse or doctor, you’re in a totally different industry does not mean that it can stop you from investing in it. I mean, listen, your primary residence is real estate right there. So you choose how active, how passive, and how deep you want to go. Just don’t be afraid of it. And if you are afraid of it, and if you are afraid of that risk, then just kind of back up and say, “Who can I align with that can make this a little bit easier?” Maybe it’s a local developer like I was mentioning or something that you’re taking the risk off yourself. Because there’s people that I’ve heard that are like, “Oh, Pam, to be successful in real estate, I’ve heard you’ve got to quit everything and put all this money in and do all this.” I’m like, “Guys, no. That is the biggest lie ever. Just because one person did it one way doesn’t mean it’s going to translate the same for you.”

David:
Question for you, because I worked in restaurants all the way through college, do you still get those anxiety fueled dreams where you’re in the restaurant and you’re trying to put the pizza in the box and you drop it on the floor, and then you’re trying to open the next box and it won’t open, and then you realize you left a pizza in the oven and it’s burned and the phone’s ringing it and everything is going wrong and you can’t get your hands to work. Am I the only one that has those terrible nightmares or have you had those two?

Pamela:
I have completely had those two, Dave. Honestly, I absolutely have. And it’s so funny because I used to deliver pizzas as well, so sometimes I would drive too fast and the cheese wasn’t fully settled on that top layer. And if it had toppings and I’ll open it and I’ll be like, “Oh my God, the green peppers are everywhere.” No, you’re not alone. You’re totally not alone on that one.

David:
Rob, did you ever have anything like that, similar nightmares in your past jobs? Never. You didn’t have a marketing dream where they’re like, “Rob, what is your great idea?” And you’re just like, “Oh my God, I don’t have one.” And everyone’s staring at you disappointed.

Rob:
Yeah. I guess my nightmare was that I would be so successful at my 9:00 to 5:00 that I’d keep getting promoted and then settle into the status quo of just living day to day for the corporate machine that bogs us down and doesn’t really ever let us spread our wing and fly away. And so yeah, that was my nightmare for a long time. But thank goodness I’m a real estate investor now.

David:
So your nightmare was that you were too good at what you did and you just got too comfortable?

Rob:
That they would tell me I was too ambitious.

David:
All right. Well, thank you for… Those things are real, dude. When you work in the service industry, you are dealing with so much pressure and anxiety that’s building up and you just don’t realize it. It all comes out in your dreams. And years later, I was doing that a long time ago, 20 years later, I’m still having these nightmares. I’m glad it’s just not me.

Rob:
This inspires me to start a YouTube series with you because we always get the headlines. I’m sure the headline for this podcast is From $9 Pizzas to Nine Figure Portfolio, but we never hear… It’s always from waiter to millionaire, but we never hear from millionaire to waiter. And so maybe you and I do a YouTube series where we go back to our grassroots and become a waiter again.

David:
That could be fun.

Rob:
And see if we still have the chops.

David:
Yeah, see if we still have what it takes. Maybe make an instructional video for other people. I could do that. Here’s how you learn how to be a good waiter.

Rob:
I’ve often thought of that because everybody wants to be the millionaire, but sometimes you got to be good at what you’re doing to build the skills. Like what Pam Pamela was just saying, she got good at this, which translated to this, which translated to this, and ultimately led you, Pam, to where you are today versus trying to skip that whole process and not giving your best. And that’s my philosophy is you have to pursue excellence with where you are that will open up doors to get you somewhere new. So let’s recap your current portfolio. 27 properties, the president of a real estate consulting and development company, a nine figure net worth by the age of 30. What’s next?

Pamela:
So it’s interesting that yes, that was a beautiful recap. It’s been a hell of a journey though. Going into flips, then I got into construction because I was boots on the ground the whole time. And then getting into brokerage because people were like, “Pam, you’re leaving money on the table by not getting involved in these deals. Everyone’s asking you for advice.” So that’s kind of how the trifecta of all three came up. And that’s how I really built this career was through diversified revenue streams in real estate, not just development. And kind of when I got to my first net seven figure a year is when I had this little tap on the shoulder that it’s like, “Pam,” this was when I was 27, “you’re doing great things for yourself. What are you doing for the world?” And I was like, “Well, damn.” That’s when I started kind of soul-searching and dove into wanting to get into the coaching space because again, realizing that real estate changed my life.
And so that’s kind of what has been happening alongside all of this. The development, the construction, all of that stuff. The consulting and the coaching side of things is really helping people get to the next level. And then really thinking about intention has really been the next thing that I’m really honed in on. And Rob, I’m so interested, because I know you’re in this space, to you hear what you say about this, but building with intention and kind of studying what does the world need now? Anyone can build condos. Anyone can build new construction, anyone can flip. Anyone can do all of that stuff. You just need to learn the skillset. But I really want to build with intention and what is it that I want to build? I want to get into affordable housing. And what I mean by that is things that can be reasonably built for a reasonable cost, which really doesn’t exist in the construction industry right now.
I’ve watched it for the last decade, I’ve been part of it. One project can last you an entire year. Whereas if you get into creating a tiny home development or a shipping home container development, you are kind of accelerating the pedal much faster. You’re not dealing with as much construction overhead. Most of all, you save time. And so that’s kind of what I’m working on next is how do we develop these communities that people can actually afford, that could be done fairly quickly and that we build with intention and how do we build these communities across the country? So that’s where my mind is next, to be honest with you. And I am expecting twin girls in August. So that’s a big one in terms of family.

Rob:
Yay. Congrats.

Pamela:
Thank you. But in terms of real estate and business, the investment side, I really want to be building with intention. And then on the real estate front, I mean I’m always helping people elevate through real estate, whether it’s through coaching, consulting, still building up my portfolio as well. But that’s kind of where it’s all at right now. I mean, it’s such a legacy builder. Real estate is the freedom vehicle, period.

Rob:
Yeah. So do you think… Because I mean, you’ve done a hundred deals so far, you’ve got 27 properties, is that going to slow down and then you’re going to really ramp up the kind of tiny home affordable space community aspect? Are you going to keep that machine rocking and rolling while you sort of pursue a different endeavor within this space?

Pamela:
So my portfolio, it basically pays all my bills and everything and then some, which is amazing. So being at my age, I’m 31 now, being at this age where you’re pretty much all set for life, but still wanting more, that’s kind of where I’m at. That’s where everyone comes into play with wanting to help them elevate through real estate and all of that. But building with intention is definitely next. I think now, because it’s my slowdown time with the girls is really when I’m going to go hard because I tell people… They’re like, “Do you think they’re going to slow you down?” I’m like, “No, they’re coming with me. They’re coming to job sites as babies and we’re going to go crush it together.” So it’s interesting that as I’m shifting into this new space, it gives me the perfect time to build those relationships and kind of build that model the way that I want to and really then go out there and execute as soon as I’m able to. Really, that’s the next wave.

Rob:
That’s amazing. Well, let me ask you this as we wrap up here, why should you be looking for deals from your pizza guy?

Pamela:
Oh, my gosh. Remember, real estate is a local business. When I first started in real estate, I’m not even joking, I printed out, “I want to buy your house,” put my cell phone number. And I was like, “Text me or call me.” And I printed these out and put them on the pizza boxes at my family’s restaurant. Because my family sold this restaurant about a year and a half ago. So they had it when I first started in investing and I put it on every pizza box.
And believe it or not, I’d have agents call me, homeowners call me. And they’re like, “Hey, Pam, we didn’t know you were in real estate. This is super cool. I have an uncle who’s looking to sell his two family or whatever.” All my deals happened organically through my relationships, which was amazing. And that’s how I got a steal of a deal, even at the biggest height of the market, which was insane. But yeah, the total valuable tool, small businesses are so key for the locations that you want to get into and the local pizza guy is the guy. He’s going to get you the deals.

David:
All right, Pamela, thank you so much for sharing your story. I think this is awesome. It’s a wonderful American success story. You started off with an entrepreneurial family. Your father starts a business. He is not afraid to start in the trenches delivering pizzas himself, bringing you in the car with him. He’s bringing you to work and you’re making these memories and bonding together as you’re jamming out to the music of DJ Pammy B, you go from cassette tapes to CDs to MP3s and eventually start your own business, realize you’re too ambitious for the corporate world, follow in their footsteps, but amplify the success that your family had, making it even bigger. Not afraid to do things differently, like putting your information on a pizza box and finding the right mentors. I love hearing this. I hope more people are inspired by this and copy it. Rob, what do you think?

Rob:
I agree with that. I think we have a story of adaptability and how that helped create a nine figure portfolio.

David:
So Pamela, for people that want to know more about this fascinating journey you’ve been on, where can they reach out and find out more about you?

Pamela:
Absolutely. So I’m on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, all over Pamela Bardhi, B-A-R-D-H-I, and it’s also my website, www.pamelabardhi.com. To reach out and find me there, DM me, I’m always floating around just living life. So please reach out to me anytime. Any way that I can help you, I’m here, man. I just want to see people rock it and slay it. I mean, what real estate has done in my life, I mean from delivering pizzas to a nine figure real estate career, featured in Forbes and Time Magazine by the time I was 27. If that could happen for me, a kid that came to this country with absolutely nothing and was able to build that just through hustle, it can totally happen for you.

David:
It all started with avoiding that Boston accent. I really think that the skills that you built resisting the urge led to the amazing success you have now. Rob, where can people find out more about you?

Rob:
Oh, they can find out more about me on the Apple Podcast store where you can leave us a five star review and we appreciate it. I appreciate it so much that I’m not even going to plug my channels because I would rather you just go there, just give us a quick little, “Oh, hey, five star. Rob and Dave are so funny. We love these guys. We learned so much about real estate.” That way we can get served up to new audiences and hopefully inspire more people to have amazing stories like Pam. David, what about you?

David:
Well, I need a pity follow because Rob has so many more followers on YouTube than me. So I will ask for a pity follow. I’m not too proud to beg. Please go to YouTube.com at DavidGreene24 and subscribe to my channel there. Or check out davidgreene24.com or DavidGreene24 all over social media, the most boring screen name in all of the real estate space, which forces me to make up for it with better content. Pam, thanks again so much. This was a blast. Thank you for sharing your story. We’ll have to have you back on again. This is David Greene for Pamela, the life of the party, Bardhi and Rob Salt Bae, Abasolo signing out.